2 Things to know when applying for a coaching position - Chris Fore with Dennis Guerra

Are you interested in knowing if an open coaching position is for you?

In this episode of Game On, So Cal!, Dennis Guerra sits down with veteran coach and athletic administrator Chris Fore to discuss the world of high school sports. From how to get a coaching job to understanding the coach-administrator relationship, Chris shares valuable athletic administration insights that every aspiring coach and school leader needs to hear.

We also discuss building winning athletics programs, the key elements of high school sports leadership, and the challenges administrators face in supporting their coaches. Plus, Chris sheds light on his unique role as an expert witness in sports, offering a behind-the-scenes look at legal cases involving athletics.

Whether you're a coach looking to advance your career or an administrator aiming to strengthen your program, this episode is packed with actionable advice on building championship teams and navigating the ever-changing landscape of high school athletics.

Listen now and level up your coaching game! 🎧 

https://www.youtube.com/@gameonsocal

Transcript

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Everyone I'm here with coach Chris Fore I think coach goes with anytime you've been a coach for an extended period and sticks with him and coach we're going to jump straight in here real quick. What is the most important thing a coach should know when applying for a high school job like resume interview? What do you think with your expertise? The most important thing is they need to know. The most important thing they need to know when applying for a job, I think, is why is that job open? Most important thing is to get a background. That'll give you a little bit of background on that position. It's the first thing I always do. When I see a job that is attractive to me, like for instance, right now I'm a high school principal at a continuation school. Absolutely love my job, love what I'm doing. somebody reached out to me like the next step in my career I want to go into personnel HR I really love that part of education and had a friend reach out to me about a job in their district that's personnel you know HR and I'm not interested at all in making that move right now but as you know he told me about it you know it's a little intriguing to me but I'm just not interested right now but that's After he told me everything about it, that's the first question I asked because I always tell coaches to do that. Find out why it's empty, you know? And so he explained to me why it was empty. And the reason that job was empty was because there was a brand new superintendent who started this. You know, we're recording this here in February of 24. And this guy started last July 1st as a lot of superintendents do. And The superintendent started July 1st. The HR guy started like a couple months before him, so it wasn't his hire. It wasn't his hire and they just weren't meshing well this whole first semester. And so that HR guy decided to step down, you know, and just and go find another job. So that told me right away a lot of things about that position. You know, it told me the new superintendent was not meshing well with the guy. That's why I was open, but it told me that. He was wanting to put together his own team. It also told me that maybe he already has his own person in mind. Otherwise, you would fight to keep that guy around this year. So that was kind of something. And then that actually came out a little later in the conversation. Yeah, he might have his own guy he's bringing in. I just really wanted to let you know I'd love to get you in our district. But I also learned in that phone call, every person, you know, District leadership, for those who don't know, a superintendent and then his assistant superintendents. That's the level of this position was. That's called your district cabinet in most districts. The whole cabinet's brand new. that also told me that there's a lot of, that's a high risk, high reward situation going into that type of situation. I mean, it's almost like a new head basketball coach being asked to come and join his staff. 75 % of the way through his first school year. That's big risk to go join a staff that's been working together since July 1st. The flip side of that is that's still relatively new staff all getting to know each other, working together. And so there's a little bit of intrigue as well. But that's really important to know. Why is this position open? Why is there a vacancy? And then you're going to ask this, coach, but second is, Can I, am I a good fit? My background education experience, is it a good fit for why that job is open? you know, for instance, if a guy was just fired because he hasn't won enough and in your career, your resume doesn't show that you've won enough, then you're not going to be a good candidate, you know? If the job's open because this guy just retired from being in that spot for 30 years, and you've been in your same spot for 15 years, that shows some longevity. Maybe that community is looking for, looking specifically for somebody who is a long-term guy. So now maybe you're a really great fit for that position. So those two things, I know you asked me for one, but number two fills right into why I said number one. But that's One of the big mistakes I see coaches making all the time, they want to be a head coach so bad. They're just applying to everything and not really thinking critically. Why is the job open and can I fit here? So yeah. Good know that I'm totally OK with jumping in with the second point because it does, as you're saying, go hand in hand there. One of the biggest in my my. Belief, one of the biggest situations in high school athletics specifically is the communication and. The need to get along between coaches and admin and now you're. You've done both. You've been on both sides of it. You did 16 years there as a high school football coach half of that as a head coach You've done what five years administrative athletic director position Principal now, I know it's at a continuation school, but similar situation you still have to work and communicate So I have two questions for you. First one is What should a coach understand when he or she is working with the admin? What's what do they need to know? the admin is looking for, what the admin wants and why they want it. that's a great question. What coaches need to know about that? I wrote a book called The Head Coach Blueprint. Part of that is talking about getting along with your administration. I spent some time, my first athletic director job, I was at a school down in San Juan Capistrano, a private school. But I was a part of that admin team where we're sitting around a table with five of us running a K to 12 private high school. And I think what I was really shocked a month into that job was just how busy administrators are. I was considered an administrator there as a full-time athletic director, very lucky, very good position. And administrators are very busy. I was asked to do stuff, part of that administrative table. You're asked to do different things that really weren't in my job description, but they're looking around going, OK, is it going to be the superintendent, the elementary principal, high school principal, the CFO, or should we send our athletic director out to do this? You can guess. I didn't get the really, really fun high profile jobs sitting around that table. But there are things I'd have to go out to do with facilities. I've never even had a facilities background, but that kind of became something I was charged in a lot of those meetings in doing. And so when you're coming to me with, hey, we need to order an extra case of tennis balls that you failed to do a good job and plan and prepare for your season, and it takes me a little bit of time to get back to you, I might have something more important on the docket for that day. And so. I tell coaches all the time who get frustrated with their admin. There's a lot of admin out there it's OK to be frustrated with. And then there's some that you just need to give them more grace because they're working their butts off. And so I always tell that to coaches though. Just, hey, they got a lot going on. Especially you look at some of these big public high schools, 2,500 kids, 2,800 kids. They're looking at maybe a 1 to 500 ratio of admin. And they're wearing a lot of hats. So I think that's one of the most important things coaches need to know. They're busy. They're running from meeting to meeting to meeting a lot of times. So I'm not saying poor as me administrators. They make very good money in most places. And then some of them just have no business being administrators, very honestly. And so. They don't even know how to address your question or concern or problem. So they're just putting it off. Some of them, honestly, I'm just being real. Yeah, no, that prefer you to be real one and two. Absolutely the truth. I've had plenty of administrators in my 27 years in education and. A lot of them don't have training on how to work with people so. OK, so then the follow up question is let's flip that so now what should administrators know and understand about their coaches? Because. That's different now. Yeah, that's a really great question to go back to back there. What administrators need to know about their coaches is you pay them almost absolutely nothing. You are asking them to do an almost impossible job for basically 11 and 1/2 months of the year for three, four, $5,000. In most cases, we're talking I don't know exactly where, well, your audience could be worldwide nowadays on the web and all that stuff. But speaking to our experience here in Southern California, where they're getting a stipend of maybe $3,500, maybe $5,000 to be a head coach. What administrators need to know is that phone does not get turned off during the season. I kind of joke about this, but I kind of don't. I'm very serious. When I became- an administrator, a full-time public school administrator, because I think there's a big difference between being a private school administrator, public, six to one half dozen the other in some ways. being a public school assistant principal, you're busy all day. mean, we had 1,400 kids. I was out at Yucca Valley. It was just myself and a principal. it's one principal, one assistant principal, 1,400 kids. That was a pretty high ratio. We were running all day doing things. But at the end of the day, when I went home, I could turn my phone off and really not worry about too much as an assistant principal. The emails that will come from people I can deal with in the morning. Now, I'm just built a little different. I would do that stuff at night sometimes. But I didn't have to. As a head coach, you have to respond to emails and to more so text messages. But these days, everybody texts you about everything. And I really mean when I say like, it's easier to be an assistant principal than a head coach in their season of sport, if that makes sense. Like overall, the 12 months, yeah, it's probably easier, less workload, less stress, you know, being a head coach over those 12 months. if you like, as an assistant principal, I don't have a three month stretch. that you're basically on the clock 24-7. It is what it is. So I think that's what admin needs to know. mean, your coaches are working their tails off. They're not doing that for money or fame. They're doing it because they love the sport and they love kids. And so as I just said earlier, sometimes you've got to give administrators a little grace and a little break. Boy, admin really need to do that with coaches. I could write a book about that. I think that both very insightful. I've I feel like a lot of coaches go in and expecting that the admin to be ready to just give them what they want or they go totally opposite. And I think what happens a lot of times and tell me if you agree is that they just aren't communicating well with each other. They're just they're assuming one thing about the other person. I mean, this happens in all kinds of relationships, but we're talking coaches and admin and coaches go in and think that the admin are totally against them. Well, no, they're busy people, right? So that's just opening up that communication skill or window with each other and trying to figure out what each other is all about is good. The stipend situation. I didn't have that on my questions, but I want to bring that up. Years ago, I want to say 2006, I was in Chicago. And talking to somebody and he coached soccer in Chicago for a high school. He made something like $15,000 as a teacher, but he made 20,000 as a soccer coach. So 2006, I guess he was surrounding greater Chicago area that that wasn't bad out here in California. We make good money as a teacher, comparatively to other teachers in in in the country, but. We make so little as coaches. Do you see a change in that in the future? Do you? Do you feel that that's going to? Adjust change that the world is starting to understand the athletics a little bit better. Or are we just going to be stuck with that because it doesn't register on the academic side of things? I don't know, I'm just shooting that one off the hip there. You said earlier, to be honest, so I'll be honest. No, I don't think that changes any time in California, honestly. If anything, we're getting away from supporting sports more than what we really need and should. mean, you look at just what we've been through, the whole COVID shutdown and all that money, right? I mean, think about it. All the money that came in, ridiculous amounts of money. I sat around an admin table where I was a principal out in Palmdale where it's like, We have to spend this money. What are we going to do? We could use it on shade. OK, let's put up some million dollar shade structures. Because we can't use it on person. Now, here's a list of 300 things you can spend it on. We don't need any of that stuff, really. But we can build shade structures because in the future, if there's another flu outbreak, then the kids can be outside. I mean, that's how ridiculous it was, right? You think about all that money we just got from the federal government, the state government on getting through COVID. A lot of the money we got wasn't even spent on COVID issues. None of that. I heard of a few different schools around who their admin was smart and they used it to redesign a weight room, redesign locker rooms. Some of them did some of that stuff, which was very smart, but most didn't. So I think even after this avalanche of money we just had, We didn't see that really impact sports. I just don't think it's going to happen. mean, one of my dreams is to be up in that district admin level one day where we can make decisions to go. Instead of $5,000, we're paying $12,000 to our head coach. I just have a dream, being able to double it with one meeting, a pin swipe from a board president who understands and values athletics. It's. It's a real shame that we don't invest more. We meaning California, we don't invest more into our into our athletics. They do so much for kids. Yeah, especially with the kids that we have in California, they go. They go to college all over the country to play the sport. We grow them into men and women because we put a lot of time and effort and that that doesn't that's across the board. But California is a hotbed for talent and academic talent as well as on the field and on the court and in the pool and everywhere else. My. My frustration is. Everywhere we hear talk about dwindling population, the we're all losing students, our population has decreased, it's becoming a struggle. How do we get people to stick around at our schools? Quite frankly, the only thing I've ever seen people go to a school for other than maybe something like an avid programmer, an IB program, and that's shrinking and diminishing. People move all the time for athletics. If you have an athletics program, you draw students. 100 new students, you know, that's pretty good numbers rather than 200 loss. yep. So that's frustrating because if they put their money into those programs, you're going to get coaches that understand that you're going to because they're still not making enough to live off of. So they're not they're not coming in it for the money there. But it gives them that effort or the incentive for the effort. Like you said, eleven and a half months, they get just a small vacation in the summer before they pick back up. OK, well, that was off the topic. Well, no, it wasn't off the topic. It's just not one of my questions. Looking at your four books, you have some some great titles. I have not. I have not read them. I'm sorry. I need to jump in and read some. But one of them is about championship programs. And so I picked the word a little bit differently. So what are the key ingredients to building a winning high school athletics program? Yeah, what I did building that, writing that book, building high school or building championship caliber football programs, I surveyed 105 coaches from 42 states, I think it was. I think that was, I know it was 42 states. I think it was 105, 103 coaches who all won state championships and that it's been a long time now, 2011 season seems like a lifetime ago, but I think most of what they said those top 10 characteristics still apply. What I did was I took all of their answers. I asked them all just three simple questions. But then I took all their answers and kind of built out this, what are the top 10 things these guys are saying? obviously, those 10, I don't have all 10 memorized here still today. But something as simple as the little things. That was one of the top three most repeated answers that winning a championship, it's not the big game you want to win. It's all the little things that matter all up until then. A coach telling me that he had a rule that once you're on the field, your shoes are going to be tied. Your cleats are going to be tied. And he took over a program where the kids didn't have their shoes tied. And he thought it was ridiculous. He's like, you go to every game with your shoes tied. Why are we not tying our shoes for practice? Right? something as little as that, that he addressed the very first day he was in that program. He said that sent this huge message that it's a brand new day here in our football program. We're gonna do things much different and we're gonna attack the little things. There's a coach who told us awesome story about his third string quarterback. This was a coach out of Texas. In the state championship game, his third string quarterback, they were up by like. Less than a touchdown, five or six points. They were driving, running, chewing off the clock. And at something like 42, 48 seconds left, his third string quarterback, who had played in one game all year, he'd played in one game. He goes in the championship game because the first two guys are hurt, they're gone. He does this hook slide to stay in bounds and let that clock keep running. And he said he was amazed at the fact that his player did this hook slide. And he ran over to him and he was like, that was amazing. We haven't practiced that in so long. How did you do that? And he goes, dad, this was his son. Pretty cool. And he goes, dad, you taught us how to do that in August. so his mind was blown, but like, That was a little drill they worked on for 15 minutes in August. And here he is in December carrying out that thing they hadn't practiced in months and months and months. But he remembered this little thing my coaches taught me. If we're winning, time's running out. I'm going to slide right before I can get knocked out of bounds. And so that was something a lot of coaches talked about, the little things that help you win. win the big games done cumulative over the course of a season. Yeah, the little things are. I mean, we go back to John Wooden, right? He's the coach of coaches, right? They they had a specific way to tie their shoes, not just haven't tied. They had to time a certain way, right? They had to have the haircut perfectly, you know. No, that's good now. Can you then? I picked the word so I'm but I'm going to ask you see what you thought can. Can you define the difference between a winning program and a championship program? Is there a difference in your mind? dang, that's a good question. The difference between a championship program. And a winning program. No, I can't. I haven't thought about that ever long enough. I will say this. I don't know if this answers your question, but when I sat out to be an athletic director, we didn't have a mission and a vision. And I sat when I knew I got that job and my family was out of town. And so I went to Denny's that night and I sat there. And part of it was to think before I got home because I got the job. I was told about it at the end of a day and like I'm all excited about it. And I just wanted to go somewhere to sit down to put some immediate thoughts to paper. And I scratched out like my mission and vision at that school and then how we were going to do those things, you know. And what I scratched out, you know, we're at a Christian school. And so for us, it was with the Eagle Way, was the Capstron and Valley Christian Eagles, the Eagle Way. winning championships and building Christians. That was vital to our mission as a school. And so our athletic department, we wanted to do those two things, win championships and build Christian young men and women. When I said build championships, then I wrote three things under there that I want us to be able to do. And so part of how I judged our coaches and when I started sharing that vision, to win a championship doesn't mean, like if you Do everything you can. If you have a great season, you might not win a championship for a variety of ways and reasons that are out of your hands. I was in a place once as a head football coach down at Linfield Christian. We had, in 2004, probably my best football team I've ever had as a head coach. And we reached the semifinals. We did not win a league championship that year because this team named Hamilton, who was in our league, We were 8-0-1 going into play them in the last week of the season, week number 10. And I think they were 8-1 going into the last week of the season. They beat us, so they beat us for the league championship. And then they won the CIF championship for our division. So it's like, and then the guy there, was good friends with him. He was there 17 years. It was my second year at Linfield. And he said, Chris, this is in 17 years the best team I've ever had. So like, One year earlier or one year later, my team probably would have won the league championship and CIF championship. But what I know about my staff that year and my kids, there's nothing we could have done better to win. There really isn't. His team was outstanding. So what I'm saying is, I judged our coaches. Are you doing these three things to help us win league championships? Are you working hard? Are you detailed, organized with your program? And do your kids have a vision and hope in what you're doing? Are they following you as a leader? So I think if you're doing those three things, you'll be on the course to win. So when you talk about the difference between, I don't know if that answers your question, but did we... And we won a lot of league championships when I was there as an athletic director. In fact, we set the record for at the time they played 40 years of sports there and we won five league championships. My last year as AD, they never won that many as a school, you know, in one season. And that was a pretty neat thing we were really proud of. But part of it was just putting out there, hey, we want to win championships, you know? But my coach, my girls basketball coach, Coach Nip, who didn't win a league championship in the five years I was there. He was an outstanding basketball coach and he did everything we asked him to do to put his team in a position to win a championship. He just, it wasn't a popular sport at our school. They were really short. We just did not have girls basketball players there at that time. So, you know, I don't know if that answers your question. I think he was, if you were to look at his record, it probably wasn't even a winning record, but he was doing a great job of of winning by having these kids compete and having these kids play hard for them. And then the second part of that goal, you know, we evaluated all of our head coaches on those two things. Are you doing everything you can to put your team in a position to win? That was one. And then two, are you building Christian young men and women? So, you know, for us and then when I went to another school as an AD, a public charter school, it was winning championships and building character. That's what we wanted to do. So as I evaluated coaches, we had some that were doing a great job of winning, but then they weren't building kids. And they weren't there for kids in the right reason. We had some who did a great job of building kids, but then they weren't putting out competitive teams or doing what they could to make teams more competitive. So in those cases, if you're failing in one of those two areas, I don't see that you had a winning program regardless of what the scoreboard said. That's awesome. That's that's goes down to what I was looking at. So my idea is at the end of a game, win or lose, have your coaches and have your players given everything they've got towards the goal of winning and where they prepared to do that. Because there's so much, like you said, you can't control that the other team had their best team they've ever had. You can't control. officials calls, you can't control whether you can't, know, there's so many little things that go on that you're out of control of. A winning program puts them, like you said, on the path to winning, puts them in that position at the end of the game. Everybody gave everything they had, coaches included. That's a winning program because you are building that character. You are building those young men and young women to send out into society. So that's mine. Winning a championship oftentimes comes because it's just pure talent. It doesn't come with that winning mentality or that building mentality. Unfortunately, I think it's too often, but there's plenty of programs that are winning and getting those championships too. So yeah, you came around on that. You took a second. I did throw you off on that. Transitioning just a touch because I'm curious about this and I think there's people out there You're an expert witness when it comes to things sports related Can you just give me a quick? Understanding of what that means one and two if there's anything that you can share that was really unique or interesting that somebody might be interested in hearing about Yeah, it's been very intriguing. in 2016, I got an email. I started a website in 2011, coach4.org. I've written like 450 articles, all kinds of articles about athletics. And this guy, somehow, he typed in, he was looking for a football expert witness for a court case here in California. This specific case was a money grab against a coach in a district. a kid who tore his ACL during summer football, seven on seven. And of course, this kid was going into the NFL, right? And so they were suing for millions of dollars that as a junior in high school, his ACL tear during seven on seven was the coach's fault. And so they sued for future earnings in the NFL. Even though I think he was like five nine. But. Anyway, this guy emails me one day, hey, I'd to talk to you about being an expert witness in a court case. Please give me a call. I call him after school that day, very intrigued. I'm like, I think you got the wrong guy. I'm not an expert. And he said, no, you are. You are an expert in football. Just from what I found on your website, I think at the time I had my resume on my website. said, you've coached. You've been this head coach for eight years. You've been an athletic director. I was a certified athletic administrator through a national body. you know, I had a master's degree in athletics. I had served time as an athletic director. And so he started listing all these things. He's like, you are an expert in high school athletics. You just don't know that the court would deem you an expert because of your education background and experience. So I was like, okay, that's cool. I don't see myself as an expert, but yeah, what do need me to do? And then he said, well, the first thing I need to do is send me your, your resume and your prices. to consult us on this case. And I said, I have no clue. And long story short, on that case alone, I made $1,600 as a head football coach. My first three years as a head football coach, I made $1,600 starting in 2003. An absolute travesty. That was at Linfield Christian. I hope they've come around. I'm sure they have since then. But you talked about stipends a little earlier, and I'm diverting here. But our head girls cross-country coach had four kids. She made $1,600. I had 70 football players. I made $1,600. It just makes no sense. Anyway, that case, I made like $4,500. It was unbelievable. What I did that night, I went home and I just Googled expert witness hourly fees and You know, the unfortunately, you know, our court system, there's so much wasted money in the court system and everything these days and in lawyers and lawsuits. But it's a it may it pays a nice little side side gig for me. And so that's how I got into it. He he was like, dude, I encourage you to, you know, start this as a little business because you're very well spoken. You are very well educated. You did a great job on this case. So basically what you go in, they send you all this information. I've been on both sides. I've represented students and families where a coach, a school really, really screwed those kids over. Better coaching, better oversight. For instance, know, trying to think without getting too specific, but I had a case years ago in San Diego. It's a really big concussion lawsuit down there. where a JV football coach said to a kid, he said to a kid, and this was confirmed by like 15 witnesses, and I'm gonna say a cuss word here, I usually don't cuss, but he said, I don't have time for that bullshit. He said that to a kid, a sophomore, who came off the field during a game and said, coach, I just need a second, I can't see. So this kid never left the field, right? He was a defensive end, he was a center. He was on like every special team, but one, and he got lit up on a kick return and you can see it clear as day. I watched the whole film. I broke the film down for four hours, wrote a report on the whole film, every single play he was in and he got lit up. He got concussed on that. And then he got concussed about three plays later. And that's when he comes out and he says like, coach, I can't see, I need a break. And this coach says this to him and puts them right back in the game. Well, coach fast forward about four and a half minutes. In game time, it was like 12 minutes, 13 minutes later, he's in the locker room. The kid passes out because his head is swelling. He throws up and then he passes out and he's still got his helmet on, right? Because he's just not even there really mentally. There's players trying to wake them up. Athletic trainer finally comes over, takes off his helmet and as soon as they took off his helmet, the blood just starts creating a golf ball, softball size on his head. Right? Once that pressure was relieved of the helmet coming off. This is who had to go right down the ER, have his skull, half of his skull sawed off because a coach said, I don't have time for this shit. Get back in there. Really, now I'm not the medical expert on it, right? But even medical experts said it was most likely that second concussion, which they think actually was his third serious one in that game. Wow. I just spoke to the laws and regulations of concussion management in that case. But there's a case where I was on the side of the family. There's cases, I've been about half and half, honestly. There's a lot of dumb stuff that happened in schools where the coaches and school leadership are to blame. A lot of it's lack of applying common sense, lack of supervising your locker room. There was a big, big case down in. the Pasadena area that was all over the news about 2010. It caused four administrators to lose their job, a volleyball hazing issue. I was a part of that, again, on the side of the families because of what I saw happen to those kids. an expert basically comes in at the tail end of a lawsuit before it goes in front of a jury. Now all the evidence, all the depositions have been done and you read through all these depositions and those are all deposition is witness testimony of what they saw and heard at the course time of the event. And then I form opinions based on my education background and experience about what happened. So most of your listeners here, they're into sports, they are probably an expert in something, whatever sport they coach. Again, part of it's just you're an expert. You've been an athletic director, you just don't know you're an expert. So that's kinda how I got into it. fell just backwards into it. First guy I ever worked for said, hey, put more of a web or just write more about this stuff on your website. You'll start to come up on searches because of Google, how that works. So yeah, it's been intriguing. usually just work as a principal. I can't miss a lot of work to go do all this stuff. So I usually work on one or two cases at a time. It's nights and weekends. Out of the 30 that I've done, I've only been in court for three of them. The other 27 all settled out of court before they got to the courtroom. Wow. That's one frightening that there's that much going on. But two, that's really interesting to me. It intrigues me on that side. I have the same masters as you, but I don't have the I don't have the expertise or the or the background to help with that. have, you know, plenty of years. I don't know about expert. All right. be surprised. Chris, thank you. Before we close, I have a question for you and this. Let's see what you can come up with. OK. If. You're a football guy. What would be the one dance you would do if you scored a touchdown in the Super Bowl? One dance? That's a great question. That's a fun one. I got to go back to like my 90s roots, man. The icky shuffle. The icky shuffle. Yeah. First one that comes to mind, I think, you know, I go on, go on icky shuffle. It didn't have to be that I think. I'm not a dancer. I'm not, I'll be, I'm not a dancer. I can't do some of the stuff these kids do these days, but I think the icky shuffle is classic. It's that's classic and I think anybody can do it. That's awesome Chris. I appreciate it Thank you so much for your time, you know sometime down in the future There may be something coming up and I'll hit you back up and get you back on I really appreciate you coming on tonight Thank you very much what you're doing here to help impact coaches. We need more of this to help our coaches make good decisions, learn a little bit. There's not enough professional development for them. So appreciate what you're doing to reach our coaches. Awesome. Thanks Chris. Have a great night.